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A gently autumnal score by Daniel Belardineli sets the scene. Jessica, a young woman in search of a new
home, stops by a New York brownstone. A sleazy real estate agent guides her through a deal and soon,
with her relationship partner, she moves in. Visions lead her to believe the house is haunted; and she
consults a psychic for validation. The psychic is played by Betsy (Mrs. Voorhees) Palmer, deliberately cast
by director Bryan Norton, whose favourite Voorhees is the pre-hockey mask Jason in Steve Miner’s Friday
the 13th part 2. The film, now on DVD, is Penny Dreadful. I asked director Norton about Penny Dreadful,
his style, intentions and aspirations as a filmmaker well-schooled in the horror genre:
Your background is a Bachelor's degree from Sarah Lawrence and a Masters from New York
University's Tisch School of The Arts Graduate Film and Television Program: and you also teach film.
Yet, you honestly admit in the commentary track on Penny Dreadful, that you attend horror
conventions. It's that knowing discipline and fan enthusiasm evident in Penny Dreadful's self-
conscious manipulation of audience expectations of the haunted house genre that interests me. Penny
Dreadful is a very studied film, can you please comment on what specific trends/ideas in past and
present horror interest you (and why), and which filmmakers (in horror or otherwise) you, as a
director, have found most influential.
Well, I am a 100% horror devotee. It's always been the most important thing in my life. Actually, a lot of
people I know who are into horror films turn out to be very well-read gentle people. Funny, isn't it?
Unfortunately, the easiest way for me to answer this question is to talk about the trends I do not like. In
the 80s, I would often have to defend horror as an art form, which was especially hard when Siskel &
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Ebert were on every talk show ranting about the rampant misogyny in the genre. Today, people don't care it seems. I am sick to death of some
of the violence towards women I've seen in the newer films. The Rob Zombie remake of Halloween, aside from being a terrible film, is nasty
towards its female characters. Doesn't it bother any one else to see a topless Danielle Harris being punched by Michael Meyers and then falling
onto the floor, writhing in pain as she bleeds from the mouth and nose? People cheered in the theatre. Hostel part 2 is another example. Yeah,
they try to have their cake and eat it too in some “YOU GO, GIRL” empowerment finale, which does nothing to counterbalance the shit that came
before. And don't even get me started on High Tension! Funny enough, the remake trend, which everyone loves to hate on, doesn't bother me
that much, especially if they're remaking an admittedly mediocre film to begin with.
When talking about what I admire, I never go by the director. I take it one film at a time. No director is enough to get me into the theatre. It has
to be about something I want to see. Today, everyone bills themselves as a fucking auteur. I couldn't even be talked into putting my name
before Penny Dreadful. I admire any director who has managed to get a couple of decent scares and some suspense. It's funny how few films
there are that actually managed that.
You mention in the commentary track on this DVD that despite knowing the expected visual tricks of horror, you purposely decided against
an overhead shot. As that perhaps eliminates the need for Hitchcockian allusion, how do you approach directing from a practical
standpoint? For instance, do you plan the look of your film in advance through say, storyboarding (although you admit that much of Penny
Dreadful's initial footage was ruined by a cinematographer who had to be replaced in re-shoots a year later, necessitating a re-structuring
of the film) or prefer a less pre-conceived approach (as the re-shoots have been seamlessly integrated into the final edit)? Why?
This is where my eight years of teaching have led me to. I see so many young directors putting the camera on the ceiling, in the toilet, in the
refrigerator, whirling and whizzing around for no purpose other than “it looks cool.” That's actually anti-directing. To me, that's what you do
when you don't have a clue what you're doing. An overhead shot instantly puts the audience in a place where they could never be, pulling you
out of the movie. Not to mention, it always has a sound stage feel to it. With Penny I made a conscious decision which I had to drill into my DP's
head over and over again. Since the end of the movie reveals that there is no ghost, it was essential to me that there would be no point of view
shots from the ghost, say creeping up the stairs as Jessica watches. That would cheat and I wanted to play fair. The creepy killer's POV shot, I've
learned, is kind of a lazy tool anyway. So basically all the supernatural stuff is done from her perspective only. I try to avoid any and all third
person perspective shots that had her or the apparitions in them at the same time. Again what I teach in my classes is that 99% of what a
director does is invisible. You're not supposed to notice the stuff or technique. Hopefully, a little will squeak through in your subconscious. That's
why I am opposed to shots that instantly draw attention to themselves, which who knows in this day and age, might be the death of a career.
Penny Dreadful was as planned as possible. It was unfortunately, an un-necessarily complicated shoot. Hopefully, I will not to make such
ridiculous compromises - even in basic coverage - again. But, yes - the colours and sense of Autumn was all planned, and in many cases, hand-
made.
Your first short film, Tomorrow's Bacon (included on the DVD as a special feature), revealed a humanist but ironic concern for behaviour
and a very subtle, suggestive sense of horror. Indeed, although the deliberate nature of Penny Dreadful evidences a knowing familiarity
with the genre, some of the almost absurdist irony in Tomorrow's Bacon suggests a feel for under-stated inter-personal humour based on
character and situation as much as clever genre construction. Are you considering at some point making films outside the horror genre? Or
bringing material from outside horror into any future horror work?
I would love to do both actually. I always try to bring some everyday type humor into the horror stuff I write. Tomorrow's Bacon was a very O.
Henry phase for me. His short stories and their construction were fun to play with in a film medium. It's funny that you mention “understated” in
Tomorrow's Bacon because even though I won a lot of prizes for it, several people just did not get it. They didn't see the humour and the reveal
at the end was too subtle for a lot of people. When I was having the final film prints made, I had them optically zoom in to the outline of the
missing knife because so many people didn't understand. But to me, Tomorrow's Bacon was always sort-of a Noir-ish dark comedy, but played
completely straight.
How do you see horror as a genre progressing?
I don't know. The older I'm getting and the more involved in the industry I'm becoming, I'm seeing a lot more of the ugly business side. It's all
about what is doing well and then making more of that. To me, however, I'm not looking to re-invent the wheel. I think there's a certain comfort
for me at least in the classic type ghost story or killer in the woods type stuff. Doing something that hasn't been done before isn't the biggest
goal to me. I hope the genre improves. It's tough to tell because there's a lot of shitty movies out there. People seem to give the new
Halloween a free pass, yet love to pick on the new Prom Night. Prom Night is admittedly pretty lousy and we can't blame all that on its PG-13
Rating. I hope we'll get away from this auteurist fan-boy stuff too. I mean, Rob Zombie as the new face of horror? The over self-promoting Eli
Roth? If this is where it's going, count me out (laughs).
In the commentary track with Robg from Icons of Fright, you mention that it was important to you to find actors and crew to work with who
did not treat the horror genre with contempt. What conditions / opportunities exist for genre filmmaking in terms of production / festivals
and fan base in your New York City working environment? In light of the difficulties with the initial director of photography on Penny
Dreadful, how do you find collaborators who share your enthusiasm and how do you approach working with them?
In New York, there's actually a wonderful horror community. I can't say that we all agree on everything. And some people's tastes differ greatly
than mine. But there is definitely a support system. I've been collecting movie memorabilia since I was a little kid, and I'm fortunate enough to
have a gigantic floor-through apartment in Greenwich Village that is head-to-toe horror posters, lobby cards and props. My place has become sort
of the official meeting ground. You'll never know who is going to pop in. A couple of months ago, Adrienne King (Alice from Friday the 13th)
wanted to come over and hang out, and Madman Marz is always up for a good part. I've also become really great friends with 80s scream queen
Lesleh Donaldson who is always up for hosting a screening of Happy Birthday to Me or Curtains here. A lot of the conventions are held here.
New York is great for screening vintage horror films. For instance, I just saw a 35mm print of Night of the Creeps on Friday at our local theater. I
wish I knew more of these wonderful horror people when I was doing Penny. It really helps to have a crew who is either working for little or no
money want to see the project get done, and to understand what we're trying to do. I could tell that my original DP and his camera crew felt
superior to horror, and were kind of rolling their eyes a lot. I was making a movie that they would never want to watch when it was done. Of
course after it won a bunch of awards, suddenly they “got it” and asked if I would hire them for future projects. But having Betsy Palmer in it, I
wanted to make sure that there were horror fans there, because it would mean a lot to both Betsy and the crew. I was like a kid in a candy store.
You apparently grew up as the youngest of nine children. Was there anything about your childhood or adolescence in such circumstances
that led to an interest in film?
I'm the youngest sibling in my family by quite a bit. Six or seven years. My father was a sports writer and my brothers were jocks. Most of them
were already out of the house by the time I was in my teens, so I was alone a lot. Back then, I was heavily into drawing which I don't do much
anymore. But I was always creating something. And then when I was 14 and I got my first video camera, forget it. I made hundreds of horror
movies, edited with two VCRS. I made a fake head mock-up of my cousin Jessica which must have been used in every movie I made. This poor girl
got her head chopped off more times than I can remember. Maybe having shot all these amateur films on video has led to my prejudice on
shooting on video or digital. I just can't take it seriously. Back then, interest in film was not looked on as something remotely interesting by
anyone. But, growing up in New England in the Jaws-land of Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, completely blinded my adolescence. At six years
old, seeing the mechanical shark hung up for the night at the beach club sealed the deal for me. I will tell you this though, having all those older
brothers and sisters meant I could always find someone to take me to “R”-rated movies! One of the best memories I have is when my brother,
Bob took me to see, on a school night no less, The Boogens in 1981! There was a huge snow storm that night, just like in the movie! We were
the only ones in the theater. Ah, the memories…
For the gore effects in Penny Dreadful, you used CGI work. Although your film is not gore-dependent by any means, could you please
describe your views of special makeup effects and shock within the horror genre and how you sought to use this.
Well, Penny Dreadful was going to be a slow burn anyway. I purposely saved all the violence for the last five minutes. If we were seeing bloody
or violent stuff from the beginning, it would have no impact. The shot of Jessica ripping the shard of glass out of her hand was added in post-
production. I had assumed that seeing her having to crawl over broken glass would be enough, but I was wrong. I wasn't planning CGI on
Penny, but the effects guy who showed up with Warrington Gilette's fake head had obviously not tried very hard. It was ridiculous. Even the
pyrotechnician whose job it was to blow the damn thing up couldn't stop laughing. So, in post we shot some green screen element and added
some CGI and it worked. But no, I'm not a big fan of CGI, and I know that's become a trendy thing to say, but I really mean it. It can be used
wonderfully to erase wires or enhance scenes, but when I start seeing CGI creatures, bullet wounds, blood hits…
You mentioned choosing the locations for their use by Lucio Fulci in The New York Ripper and Terence Young in Wait Until Dark: how would
you place your treatment of visceral shock and suspense in comparison to the films you reference and evoke in Penny Dreadful?
Well, in the shock department, nothing can hold a candle to The New York Ripper. In terms of craft and skill, I certainly can't compete with Wait
Until Dark. I just thought both of those locations would be a nice little invisible in-joke for the four or five people out there who would care.
At present you also script as well as direct. Knowing that you will be directing, how do you approach script-writing?
I don't fancy myself to be a writer, which is odd because the first couple of paid jobs I had after film school were writing gigs. I suppose I can write
if I am forced to, but my goal has always been to reach that position where you can read other people's scripts and pick one that you think would
make a great movie. I read a lot of horror scripts and many are either fan-boy amateur or written with such contempt for the genre by writers
who are looking for a way “in” to more legitimate work. So, it's hard.
For Penny Dreadful, you worked with not only Betsy Palmer but Peter Dupre (from Eyes of a Stranger) and former-Jason actor Warrington
Gilette. Why did you specifically cast actors with such a cultish history within the genre? What about their work attracted them to you and
what did you try to draw out in them from their characterizations to add to the movie?
Well, I was a huge Friday the 13th kid. For people my age, Betsy Palmer was the way you conned your parents into letting you watch it.
Something about her involvement, made it seem less like the shocking trash it was advertised as. I had gotten to know Betsy here in New York.
She lives in a tiny apartment on the Upper West Side and doesn't do much anymore, but she's always willing to have you over for tea and tell you
stories about old Hollywood. Warrington was a friend of a friend and I was just so excited that he said yes. From a press kit angle, how cool is it
to have Mrs. Voorhees AND Jason in the same movie! Also, I knew the film was going to be done for the 25th Anniversary of Friday the 13th and I
thought would give it a little extra help with publicity. Peter Dupre co-starred in one of my all-time favorites slashers, Eyes of a Stranger. I met
him by coincidence. He owns a hip and trendy bar here in NYC. He just couldn't believe that I knew so much about that movie. He doesn't have a
lot to do in Penny Dreadful, but he looked and sounded the part, and I thought it would be fun to work with him.
I don't want to give away the ending of Penny Dreadful for those who have yet to see it, but it is curious that at plot level, the “haunting” is
accepted almost as an ordinary thing - no scientific ghost hunting team or over-acted priests here as Jessica almost seems to think it's cool
to be in a haunted house. Although you play on self-reflexive levels with Palmer's psychic character, there is here a willingness to entertain
a belief in the supernatural. What are your personal feelings about hauntings, clairvoyance and - especially as it is so creatively central to
Penny Dreadful - pre-cognizance? AND: how does this relate to your appreciation of other films to examine these themes?
I've always found it very boring in most haunted house movies that we have to watch endless scenes of Doubting Thomases and non-believers
there just to supply conflict, especially when the audience has paid to see a movie that involves a haunting. It's like when Alfred Hitchcock was
asked, “Why don't they just call the police?” He responded simply, “Because it's boring.” I thought it would be neat to have a character move into
the house, learns it's haunted, accepts it and kind of thinks it's fun. Actually, we prepped a big scene with extras that had to be cut where
Jessica's friends throw her a house-warming party and part of the joke was that most of the gifts were candelabras or ouija boards because she
told everyone the house was haunted. I think I still have a stack of twelve ouija boards around here. As for me believing in the supernatural, I
don't know. I'm afraid to say that I don't because I know I will wake up and find some man in pilgrim clothes trying to prove me wrong. That
would scare the shit out of me! I'm totally addicted to all those true-life ghost investigation shows. And it's something I have a ton of books on.
But in the 70s, there were some really great made-for-TV movies like Something Evil and This House Possessed about haunted houses that I am a
huge fan of. Give me that genre any day.
About the DVD release: you've included a detailed special features package and a vibrant transfer for both Penny Dreadful and Tomorrow's
Bacon. Now marketing for DVD to the point of designing features, do you feel the familiarity and attention to behind-the-scenes details,
special effects trickery and the movie-making experience made possible by DVD has changed viewers' expectations of watching movies in
general, and horror movies in particular?
Interesting question. But I'm not sure people would run to the special features on a movie like Penny Dreadful because I'm not famous. Celebrity
directors, you know the ones that we know what they look like, who they are married to, etc, probably have more people interested in their
behind-the-scenes stuff. But yeah, maybe some of the magic is gone. One depressing trend in the behind-the-scenes stuff is that everything has
become so self-congratulatory. When you listen to a commentary and all the people do is compliment each other back and forth on a shitty movie
embarrasses me. Some people thought I was too negative in some of the things I said about Penny Dreadful, but I was speaking from the heart.
I thought it was much more interesting to tell the truth about how hard it is to make a film.
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