|
|
|
|
The following is a shortened interview with 42nd Street Pete for DVD Resurrections. The complete interview can be found in
the newly constructed Wider Screenings Adult Section at: www.widerscreenings.com/adultreviewindex.html
Simply enter the Adult Section from the above link and scroll down the hompage to the 42nd Street Pete Exclusive Interview.
The full interview text is available there with YouTube embeds and illustrations.
|
42P, I’d like, if I may, to begin this interview with a few personal and background
questions regarding your experience on 42nd Street . First off, “the Deuce” and
“grindhouse theatre” are terms that are now used nostalgically in such recent books as
Sleazoid Express, which you have reviewed in your blog. To what time, place and type
of movie do these terms refer?
I would say the time was from the early 1950's to when it shut down. The term “grindhouse”
movies sort of replaced the term “bad movies”. In the mid 1980's, people started referring to
42nd Street as "the Deuce". It had also been called The Minnesota Strip because supposedly
all the runaways came from the midwest and became prostitutes. Basically grindhouse films
were soft & hardcore porn, horror movies, women in prison films, biker films, spaghetti
westerns, cheap euro crime & spy films, drug & exploitation films, Kung fu & Samurai films,
etc. Even some of your bigger budget mainstream films, like Death Wish fell into the
grindhouse category.
|
|
|
I understand you were a regular sight on 42nd Street during its heyday. Would you please describe the Deuce and its
environs at that time – if one walked down that area, what would one encounter?
If one walked down that street in the daytime, you would get propositioned by street walkers, beat drug salesmen, derelicts,
etc. There were movie theaters , sex shops, peep shows, and massage parlors every two feet. Don't make eye contact or talk
to strangers was the rule. Lots of muggers worked in pairs. Bottom line was they knew who belonged there and who didn't. I
rarely drank at any bar on “the Deuce". My watering hole was Club 44 on 44th street. It was a little more sedate than some of
the other places. The barmaids were cool and provided $10 blow jobs in the back room. Being that I am 6' 2" and weighed 285
at the time, assholes didn't want to fuck with me. Don't get me wrong, I got held up in the Anco theater, a real shithole, got
stabbed by a crazy right in front of The Lyric, protecting one of my hooker friends, got my ass kicked in a brawl that started in
a massage parlor and wound up on 8th avenue, so yeah, I took a couple of beatings. People tend to romanticize bar fights. They
are usually quick, brutal, and someone gets hurt.
Night time was pretty dangerous. The corner of 42nd & Broadway was infested by pimps, hookers, and junkie scam artists. You
pretty much had to be a tough guy or very alert to hang out there.
Considering it had such a sleazy reputation in New York City, what appeal did the Deuce have for you? What did you find
there that has made such a lasting impression into your later life?
Actually NYC had a sleazy rep back then. I was drawn there because this country was in a war with Vietnam and I was classified
1A which meant I was going to go die in a fucking jungle. So, figuring my life was about to be cut short, I had started going to
the Village for some underage drinking. One day I made a left on 8th Ave and was on the corner of 42nd Street & 8th Ave.
I looked up 42nd Street and saw the marquee beckon to me with titles like Night of the Living Dead, The Ghastly Ones, Payment
in Blood, Curse of Her Flesh, The Devil's Angels, and more. Looking down 8th Ave, there was a twisted netherworld of porn
theaters, massage parlors, titty bars, book stores and the short stay hotels.
Being a huge movie buff, I was in heaven. Back then movies changed on Wednesday, so I could catch a lot of good stuff before
the weekend and avoid the crowd. Weekends I bar hopped all over the Deuce in a feeble attempt to get laid.
I just lost myself in a world of shitty movie theaters, booze, pot, hookers, etc. The neon from the marquees could give you a
sunburn. I just dug how insane the whole scene was. There was a place that sold weapons & fake id's. One liquor store stocked
nothing but the finest 69 cent wines. The longer & the later you stayed, the weirder it got. Some places were open 24/7.
Weekends all the movies ran late. And you could always find an after hours joint to hang out in until dawn.
I understand that you are in the process of writing a book about your experiences and the people you associated with. As
a preview: please describe some of the regular grindhouse crowd that you associated with during your time there. What
backgrounds did they have, what type(s) of people were they and what commonality and even community, if any, was to
be found on the Deuce?
Sad thing is that I'm about the only one still alive. I attribute that to dumb luck and not getting into hard drugs. Out of maybe 30
people I hung out with, most are dead. Overdoses, car wrecks, murder, etc. I met a lot of weird people. This guy Leon, was a
career sex worker. He didn't have sex for money, he just was the guy who patted you down for weapons at the massage
parlors. Since I was a regular, we ran into each other often.
You met a lot of petty crooks and hustlers. I was a hustler, alway wheeling and dealing something for a buck. Stag films were a
hot item and so were bootleg 8 track tapes. You met quite a cast of characters in that racket. I met my future best friend and
boss, Norman, over there and remember some of the stuff 20 years later. Ran into Al Goldstein a lot. People don't like Al, but
he was always cool with me.
There was not a lot of comradery (sic) on my part , I minded my own business. After you see a couple guys die for being
assholes or doing dumb shit, you choose your associates carefully. I was tight with a few guys, but it was more business than
anything else. It wasn't like we exchanged Xmas gifts.
I got tight with two call girls that I met at an impromtu bachelor party in the middle of an afternoon. I was the only one with
weed. Lisa & Candy were their names. Candy was Asian, Lisa was white. They told me to give them a call one day. I did, the
next day. We got along and it wasn't just about the pussy. These two had their acts together. One was going to school. They
didn't work out of their apartment, so I was more than welcome to stay over when ever I wanted.
I also used to walk them to their clients when needed. If it was a regular client, no problem. If it was a new client they would
want me to walk them right to the door and make sure the client saw me. That way he understood that when I came back in an
hour, she'd better not be crying or marked up. Never had a problem until some street psycho went after Candy.
Lost touch with them many years ago. Last I heard was that Lisa married a lawyer and Candy was working in Vegas.
There was a lot of terminology that attended the showing of sex and exploitation films on the Deuce circuit: jargon like
“roughie”, “storefront feature”, “stag film”, “loop” and “one day wonder” proliferate in discussions about this generally
disreputable era. Please explain these terms and the circumstances that led to their standard use on the grindhouse
circuit?
People coin phrases and they creep into our culture. A "roughie" was a film that featured violent sex. In the 60's it was films that
had women getting "roughed up" by the guys. Some of these pushed the envelope. Stuff like the "Olga" series were that type
of film. A real softcore sickie was San Francisco Ball by Jack Genero. Two women are snatched and held for ransom by three
thugs. They are raped and sliced up with switchblades. The guys don't get hard, just stand around with no pants on. The bloody
girls lay on the floor & moan. It's all pretty unsettling.
Avon films were the ultimate roughies. Shot in a day or so, hence the "one day wonder" term, these were probably some of the
most depraved films ever made. Torture, rape, abduction, slavery, etc. Custom made for the times.
Storefront Features were films that ran about an hour long and were outright purchased from a distributor. A lot of reel I picked
up had "house print" written on it. Storefront Theaters were un-rentable stores on places like the Deuce. They could get away
with a lot of shit legit houses couldn't because of their size. Films were shot in 16mm, sometimes without sound, specifically for
that market. Most of the theaters advertised "Three Continuous Features" which was about 3 hours worth of film.
Stag films and loops are the same thing. They were also called “smokers” because they were usually shown in a VFW bar full of
cigar and cigarette smoke. I don't know who coined the term stag film. Loops could have come about as the way these things
were set up. One system had an endless loop, usually two films spliced together in an 8 track type cartridge.
Please describe the circumstances that led to the closure of the Deuce and explain how it has changed since the
grindhouse heyday. What forces were responsible for the “clean up the streets” campaign, how did it come about and
what form did it take: and how did the Deuce regulars respond?
People had been trying to shut down the place since the 40's. The story I had heard was that Disney really wanted to do
something with the block and the Mayor at the time, Rudy Gulliani, promised he would make it happen. Most of the porn guys
had taken out cheap, multi year leases on formerly "unrentable " properties. Rudy told the landlords not to renew the leases.
Three things killed the "Deuce": home video, AIDS & crack. With the advent of home video, you didn't need to venture into a
dangerous theater or peep show to rub one out. You could do it in your living room. And there was no more threading film into
that noisy 8mm projector. You just popped in the tape, drop your pants, and break out the baby oil.
Considering the plethora of drugs in the 70's, crack was the most fucked up thing to ever come down the pipe. Stoned out
Romero-esque pipe-heads were everywhere. As dangerous as things had been, crack just amplified them. Then the AIDS
epidemic.
First to go were the gay bath houses. Police went undercover in the porn theaters, documented sex acts, and used this to get
the board of health to shut them down. I wouldn't go near the "Deuce" then. The Liberty Theater was showing Make Them Die
Slowly, which was sadly a reflection of what was happening all over Times Square. One by one they were shut down. The
'Hobo Hilton’ – the Venus Theater – was closed down in mid-film. No fan fare, no big ending, it just went out like a candle
flickering out in a puddle of its own juices. In 2003 it was completely done in. Peepland, the last holdout was closed. Al
Goldstein lost his mind & his brainchild, Screw Magazine. NYC Liquidators, one of the last of the big porn video distributors,
owner died. I lost my best friend and my last job as it, too, was liquidated.
The "Deuce" regulars were gone a few years before it came down. No sane person would go to the movies there anymore.
Ripoffs were all too common. People just stayed away. It was safer to watch a grindhouse film on VHS than take a chance in a
theater. It was insidious, like a creeping virus. After it took out "the Deuce" it spread through the five burroughs and the inner
cities of New Jersey. The crack epidemic closed all those theaters too.
Many of your releases through After Hours Cinema feature detailed and illustrated collector’s booklets exploring the films
and the people involved in them. This type of film and its makers has rarely been given such historical perspective. How
do you find biographical information about the performers and makers of these films when so many of the films either
had no credits or used pseudonyms?
I have been lucky enough to meet and become friends with people like David Friedman, Nick Philips and others. Working in the
business, I also met quite a few folks. Being that this stuff was illegal for many years, you have to filter out a lot of
information. People lie, plain & simple, it isn't like we are dealing with members of the clergy here. I was blissfully ignorant of
a lot of stuff. I used to collect movie stills from a big store next to the Venus Theater. Little did I know that this was the
epicenter of the porn biz .
I read a lot as opposed to surfing the net. You'd be surprised what you can find in the old copies of Screw and other magazines
from that era. A lot of guys are coming out of the woodwork with bullshit stories. Shaun Costello said that Forced Entry wasn't
distributed by Avon, but right in the credits it says distributed by Variety Films, which was Avon's distribution arm.
Surrounded by stag films, loops and porn as you seem to be: does this material still turn you on and, if so, what type of
material out of the range you release onto DVD do you find personally the most stimulating and rewarding (though the
title “Busty Stags” may give something away here)?
None of this stuff "turns me on". You get desensitised. I look at it this way, if you own a liquor store, you shouldn't be an alky;
if you sell candy, you shouldn't have a sweet tooth. You become your own best customer. Same with this stuff. I've dealt with
"sex addicts" over the years. These are the people who "have" to see everything. It is an addiction.
I'm not emotionally involved with the product. It's a business, and it's something I'm good at. I know what people want and I
give it too them. People don't want to see 4 hours of the old cock in cunt stuff. They want to see the bizarre, the forbidden,
real stars, stuff from Europe etc. I tap into that psyche and fill that need. My picks are never boring.
Years ago I was desensitised. We didn't have sex education back then. I used to watch every loop before I sold it. That's how I
learned, then the stuff became mundane to me. Men think I have the greatest job in the world, women despise me for it. Try
dating when you do what I do. You’re judged right away. Considering I did a screening where more than half the audience was
women, it's a double standard. Women are into this stuff, but won't admit it. I had a lot of women customers in my video store
because it was safe & low keyed.
There is no set type of woman that turns me on, but I really don't like BBWs
On the introductions to your DVDs, you openly display and use a bong / water pipe. What was the relationship between
sex and drugs in the 42nd Street scene and how do you feel that the moral clampdown on both drugs and porn affects
America’s Constitutional freedoms? What is your personal view on marijuana specifically and the American War on Drugs
in general? Do you support decriminalization?
Sex & drugs went hand in hand on the "Deuce". You could buy almost anything there. Pot was all over the place, then coke.
PCP was a big 70's drug that induced psychotic behavior. Then crack. People openly smoked in theaters and sometimes bars.
Cops back then just gave you a ticket if you got caught. They had more important fish to catch.
As far as I know, there is no crackdown on porn. Oh, there would have been, if 9-11 didn't happen. Bush allocated billions of
dollars to wipe it out because of a promise to the Religious Right. That douchebag Ashcroft had one airtight case and lost it.
Right now I don't think anyone gives a shit.
I advocate the legalization of weed because it's less harmful than alcohol. Look at the tax revenue you could raise if it was
legal. The plant itself is beneficial. You can use it for rope, oil, clothing etc. Reason it's illegal is that the drug companies
know of its many uses and don't want you growing something beneficial in your back yard. They would rather sell you on any
chemical crap they come up with. Look at the side effects of all these supposed "wonder" drugs: headaches, nausea, internal
bleeding, blurred vision and , this ones the best, the overwhelming urge to have sex or gamble. The worst thing that pot will do
is give you a cough, dry mouth or an empty refrigerator.
Look at what happened to Tommy Chong for selling a bong on the internet! The laws suck, the "drug war" is a waste of time,
money, and ruins innocent people’s lives. For all the supposed "intelligent" people running things, they are pretty fuckin’
stupid. You make anything illegal, people will want to try it. If you banned the sale of peanut butter tomorrow, you would
create a black market for it. It's human nature to want to try something forbidden. When it's illegal, it's more fun. Porn was
more fun when it was illegal. Legalized it's boring.
Other releases by After Hours Cinema include biographical details of sex film makers. This attention to the pornographer
as, if not artist, then at least filmmaker worthy of archivist (and potentially critical) scrutiny implies that there is just as
much a creative force in pornography as there is in mainstream film, albeit surfacing to vastly different ends and
budgetary restrictions. Do you feel that pornography and the type of vintage erotica you release offer anything besides
nostalgic stroke fantasies? Why should someone specifically view this material when there is so much high-quality, new
contemporary pornography to get off to?
The stuff After Hours put out has historical relevance, plus our feature films actually have a plot as opposed to 7 scenes on a
DVD. People view this stuff because it is different and some of the stuff you couldn't get away with filming today.
As for creative forces behind the camera, some guys were really good, others didn't have a clue. It was and will always be
about the money. Vanessa Del Rio told me that she shot and was paid for doing two loops. Those two loops were cut into 8
loops. I did a shoot for one DVD. That shoot was cut into two and appeared on two DVDs. It's the nature of the business.
Today's stuff , for all of it's bells & whistles, sucks. Picture perfect women, men with 37 inch cocks. They don't get it. None of
us could compete with these guys and that's where they lost track. If you look at the older films, they used non threatening
guys. Men identified with them, figuring that if these guys could score, maybe they could too. The women (today) are all too
perfect, unattainable. With the women in loops and early features, the viewer had the hope that he could get someone like
that. Now it's all glitz & glamour. Vanessa said it best when she said sex isn't dirty anymore. Right on, sister.
The material included on your releases comes primarily from a time when sex films were considered morally obscene and
liable to legal prosecutions, both in terms of their immoral content and their possible links to organized crime.
Pornography is now a legal, billion dollar industry. How do you feel the sex film (and viewing it) has changed now that
the pornography industry has long moved out of the peep show booth and into the home living room via the internet and
video on demand (a service you also offer)?
Legalization and home video took it out of the theaters and into America’s living rooms. It became a corporate entity. Like I
said, it was more fun when it was illegal. Now it's just a business and anyone with a palmcorder is now a "film maker. The
internet is both good and bad. Good in the aspect that it spreads the word. Bad in the fact that companies are now bypassing
the distributors and stores and offering right to the consumer. So they, in essence, are putting two entitise out of business so
they get a bigger cut of the pie. Another example of corporate greed.
What are your future plans as host, archivist, prospective author and representative degenerate for After Hours Cinema?
I'm just going to keep doing my thing. As long as the fans are happy with my work, I'm happy. It's never been about the
paycheck, it's always been doing something creative and doing it right. I will always be a fan and, in being a fan, I give my
fellow fans stuff I think they would want. When people get tired of my stuff, I'll call it a day. I'm hoping that day is really far
off because I enjoy my work and enjoy meeting people who appreciate and respect the grindhouse culture. Thanks to all that
have picked up my discs. I hope the fans have enjoyed them as much as I've enjoyed making them.
42P: thank you for your time.
|
|
